Garbage Burrito

I've been evaluating this project over the weekend:

http://grails.codehaus.org/

After evaluating RIFE, roma, trails, and sails I have to say that I am beginning to like the way it's put together. Unlike Rails, the syntax is based on Groovy which is much closer to Java (same closures, operators, etc...). The 'default' way to handle domain classes is by creating POGOs in groovy that get persisted to your database using Hibernate. However, it's also possible to reflect the domain forward from the database the way it's done in rails. Scaffolding works just like rails

It also has built-in DOJO support, supports JSPs views (with tags), and is 100% java so you don't have to introduce new un-known 'core' technology. The grails CLI will create a deployable WAR file.

Plus no buffer overflows and other security holes you find in 'C' based scripting languages ;)

I researched Grails along with RIFE and Trails a few months ago just to make sure that I was still making the right choice with Rails. Honestly they looked great, but once I started coding with them it just didn't feel the same.

Something that tries to be like Rails just doesn't interest me. It's not just about the technology, it's a philosophy. If I need the stability and scalability of Java, I'm just going to stick with struts, spring and hibernate.

There are two development worlds for me now, and I like to keep them separate. :)

That's seems like an unusual position to me. It doesn't make any sense why you wouldn't want to bring those paradigms into your java world?!? You can be a 'codist' if you want and keep things segregated. I've always been in favor of integrating functionality cross-platform without having to adjust to an entirely separate syntax.

I've considered it. I spent quite a while saying "rails can't be that great". I'm not going to try and convince you that Rails is worth anything, since it seems you're bent on convincing me it's not. And you certainly don't have to explain value of Java to me.

A good craftsman knows when to use the right tool. Ruby is a pickaxe and Java is a Jackhammer. No matter what kind of tip you put on it, it's still a Jackhammer.

Trust me, this isn't blind acceptance. I'm out here in the trenchs. I didn't create the separation, it was already there. Spend a week working for a large corporation and you'll understand what I mean. I'm sure Ryan has already figured this out.

BTW: Are you guys still using PHP?

Alright Settle Down You two! different strokes differen folks. I'm sure all of these technologies have un-tapped resources. yall are comparin apples to pineapples... yeah.. they sound the same... there both a fruit, but there not the same fruit.

Ben. no one is going to take rails away from you. You've committed to a relationship with rails, and thats just fine. just because Dave is a technological whore dosn't mean you have to be. You have the strength of Concept and Objectivity. You like to "Keep it simple, stupid!". Thats how you conjured up DMAS, and Projector. I see you as being more apt to developing what you need, insted of assimilating it like Dave. You like rails for it's ellegence. Just because rails dosn't have everything you need right now, dosn't mean it won't later.

Dave. you have the power of digesgion. it amazes me how how you can assimilate a new technology and apply it to your goal; a very potent business Strength! However you are not a romantic. You don't typically develop and maintain intimate relationships with technologies. I think primarily because they don't have everyhting you need; so you just move on.

either of you can correct me if I'm wrong.

now both of you shake hands and be friends again. OMFG! lol

I'm not comparing anything. Like I said, it's too separate worlds for me now. I would never discount Java, it's the language that's actually making me money right now! But soon the tides will turn, muahahahah!

BTW, did you delete your avatar?

no.. I tried to update my picture.. but it's not working. it would be cool to have image requirements or maybe just a more diverse upload feature.

Re: PHP. We are moving to cakePHP for PHP development. I have so say, they have done an excellent job and bringing the best of the Rails paradigms to PHP (relational data modeling, scaffolds, etc...). Plus, our entire legacy code base runs right along side with a single syntax.

This is also true with Grails which is still pretty young but far the front runner for me. Advantages: Groovy scripting is the same syntax as java (you can compile the scripts to .class files!). No radical mixing of syntaxes (same operators, statements and closures), everything is cross-platform at the byte code level, 100% java, plus it fully supports our legacy base (We can use projector tags in grails views!)

I know code legacy isn't important for a lot of people; some can code and just walk away. For better or worse, I've chosen to support our code base.

So my challenge is different that yours. I have to figure out the best way to move our code and tools forward without abandoning everything. Right or wrong, I am still sticking to my philosophy of 'C Latin' which you've heard me rant on before. Don't get me wrong, I don't think C is the perfect core syntax set; it's just what we do. Minimize the mental "syntax setup" by keeping things ACAP (as common as possible)

That being said, we do use JRuby with Datavision (even though I patched their BSF engine to support JavaScript) so I'm no stranger to exceptions. And if Ruby really takes off, we'll be right there (just like coldfusion)

So I guess I'm a victim of my 'carry forward' technical philosophies. I don't doubt that I could walk away and totally re-invent myself and probably make a lot more cash.

We are all victims of our philosophical paradigms to some extent; we could follow Scott Lynn (Virtumundo) to the gates of banner ad / search engine spam hell (Dante's side bar). But most of us don't want to make the Internet a crappier or more annoying place to be. There are plenty of people (ie. L.F.) that would say that doing otherwise is foolish. It still irks me to think about the "Domain America" guys (fake domain registration letters) laughing all the way to the bank. I hope their karma catches up with them, but as much as I want to, I don't believe in Karma (or any other magic). The magic is in improving people's lives, if you do that; your "brand" in their minds will improve. That is what Karma is really about.

Do you think Ruby on the Mac will run HyperCard stacks? (tic)

I've heard good things about cakePHP, and considered using it for awhile.

Honeslty though, I always hated going between Java and PHP, because of the similar syntax. I would always forget which one I was coding in. That's probably one of the reasons I like Ruby. I can code all morning in Java, switch to Ruby mode at lunch, and back to Java in the afternoon. Because they are so different, it's easy not to get them mixed up.

I freaking hate those Domain America letters. It makes me mad when people think I'm that stupid.

I do think that Apple will adopt Rails in much the same way that IBM adopted J2EE. The core Rails group will not sell out, but there will definately be a relationship there. Infact, this is a little conspiratory, but I think that Apple is paying Textmate(the editor everyone uses for rails except me) not to release a windows version, to persuade people to buy macs. Call me crazy.... no really, do it.